(no subject)
By the way, I saw Thor over the weekend and I really really liked it—like, maybe if it was stand alone I wouldn't have liked it so much but I'm a sucker for the Marvel movieverse like you wouldn't believe. Weirdly I thought the weakest part of the film was Loki, which to my surprise is everybody else's favorite part—I mean the guy's a great actor so I mostly blamed Branaugh for the bizarre inconsistencies, much as that pained me, since I like most of what Branaugh did a lot. BUT LIKE, watched the interviews and stuff, it seems they worked really hard to Loki so I really really want to pull a coherent characterization of this guy out of the movie.
THE FILM MAKES THIS HARD, THOUGH.
Okay, so like, does Loki even like Thor? The film gives us literally no evidence that he does, unless we count not killing him on a few occasions when he had the chance, which, you know, I personally expect a lot more out of my relationships. Every nice thing he says to Thor is for the purposes of manipulating him. NOW I MEAN, I think he must have cared about Thor, off screen anyway, IN THE PAST, if only because Thor so obviously trusts and cares about Loki, and I don't think you could go however many centuries without noticing that the little brother you adore actually totally hates your guts! Especially since Thor might be stupid but he's not really an idiot when it comes to intrapersonal relationships—he has way too many friends READY TO FOLLOW HIM INTO DEATH for that.
But, on the other hand, Loki sort of does hate Thor. HE HOLDS OFF KILLING HIM FOR A WHILE, sure, but when he finally decides to do so it's for literally no reason whatsoever. CHECK IT OUT: Thor was stranded on Earth! He had no powers! All his allies were stuck on Earth with him, and there was no reason to really think that they'd ever be able to get home again. None of these people were even sure Loki was a traitor until after he tried to kill them all. THE ONLY THING THAT REALLY CHANGED WAS THAT ... THOR WOULD KNOW LOKI LIED TO HIM? So then he sends a murderous deathbot to go kill his unpowered brother (and presumably all the friends that the two of them grew up with) and only appears to hesitate when deciding between BLASTING THOR'S FACE OFF or BEATING HIM TO DEATH. And then he opts for the way more personal BEATING HIM TO DEATH.
This is after he found out he was a frost giant, of course, which triggered his massive nervous breakdown.
WHICH, UM.
I mean the more real world equivalent to this is that you find out you were adopted from another country. In response, you decide to 1) kill your adopted siblings, 2) travel to your place of origin, meet your biological father, don't reveal your relationship, and then hire him to kill your adopted father, 3) kill your biological father in the process of the attempted assassination, thereby becoming a hero! Oh, and then 4) you nuke the whole country you came from. WTF. I mean I get his identity crisis went deep and he wants to prove himself a TRUE ASGARDIAN and DESTROY HIS ORIGINS FOREVER but finding out he was a frost giant did not really justify what Loki did. And I don't just mean like, morally. I MEAN LOGICALLY.
And he was pretty fucked up before that even went down. I MEAN HE SET UP A BUNCH OF FROST GIANTS TO GET KILLED, THEN SENT THOR AND ALL HIS FRIENDS TO SUPER DANGEROUS FROST GIANT-LAND (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
thor loves me and my names for these places), then possibly gets Thor kicked out of Asgard? IDK if he meant it to go that far. In fact I sort of get the idea that he didn't mean for that battle to go as south as it did, HIS "THOR, LET'S GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE" start to sound genuine when there is real danger going around, but like I said before, NOT WANTING EVERYBODY YOU KNOW TO DIE does not actually earn you a mark in the Good Person column.
SO LIKE, he was already halfway to his nervous breakdown already, clearly. BUT WHY?
ODIN WAS A SHIT PARENT BUT WHAT SUGGESTS HE WAS THAT TERRIBLE? Tons of people I know have favorite kids, and are super obvious about it. FUCKS THE KIDS UP YES, but they stop short of sending kill bots to off their more liked siblings.
I think it's the kill bot that is the sticking point for me.
Also the fact that everybody seemed to naturally suspect Loki, at a point in the film where I, the viewer with meta knowledge, passing knowledge of mythology, and experience in seeing basically every big budget action/fantasy film ever made in America, still thought his justifications were holding up pretty well actually. SO MAYBE HE'S BEEN SHIFTY IN THE PAST? But doubting Loki never for a second crosses Thor's mind, even when he's all irrational and upset about Odin's death, so there has to be some sort of history that makes Thor think he can trust Loki absolutely. History that simultaneously makes everybody else totally distrust him? EXCEPT HIS PARENTS, who are actually sort of realistically parentish, they don't expect him to do anything awful but they don't like, think they can trust him absolutely or anything. This is presumably because they have met him.
BUT THOR KNOWS HIM TOO? Maybe he is just missing what everybody else thinks is obvious. There's just not a whole lot to indicate that Thor is that fucking stupid, though.
This is just bad writing, I tell myself. NO, my brain says. THERE IS A STORY IN HERE. THESE PIECES CLEARLY MAKE A STORY THAT MAKES SENSE.
It doesn't, though. I start to think I pick my fandoms not just because they are corny and crazily unevenly written, but because of this fact.
While we're on the topic of plotholes can you really hit a dude with your car and taze him unconscious, then bring him to the hospital and tell them, oh yeah, we found this guy, looks like's he's been hit by a car and then tazed unconscious, crazy, huh? Laters!
I have only seen this movie once and I cannot see it again probably until it is out on DVD. Nooooo.
THE FILM MAKES THIS HARD, THOUGH.
Okay, so like, does Loki even like Thor? The film gives us literally no evidence that he does, unless we count not killing him on a few occasions when he had the chance, which, you know, I personally expect a lot more out of my relationships. Every nice thing he says to Thor is for the purposes of manipulating him. NOW I MEAN, I think he must have cared about Thor, off screen anyway, IN THE PAST, if only because Thor so obviously trusts and cares about Loki, and I don't think you could go however many centuries without noticing that the little brother you adore actually totally hates your guts! Especially since Thor might be stupid but he's not really an idiot when it comes to intrapersonal relationships—he has way too many friends READY TO FOLLOW HIM INTO DEATH for that.
But, on the other hand, Loki sort of does hate Thor. HE HOLDS OFF KILLING HIM FOR A WHILE, sure, but when he finally decides to do so it's for literally no reason whatsoever. CHECK IT OUT: Thor was stranded on Earth! He had no powers! All his allies were stuck on Earth with him, and there was no reason to really think that they'd ever be able to get home again. None of these people were even sure Loki was a traitor until after he tried to kill them all. THE ONLY THING THAT REALLY CHANGED WAS THAT ... THOR WOULD KNOW LOKI LIED TO HIM? So then he sends a murderous deathbot to go kill his unpowered brother (and presumably all the friends that the two of them grew up with) and only appears to hesitate when deciding between BLASTING THOR'S FACE OFF or BEATING HIM TO DEATH. And then he opts for the way more personal BEATING HIM TO DEATH.
This is after he found out he was a frost giant, of course, which triggered his massive nervous breakdown.
WHICH, UM.
I mean the more real world equivalent to this is that you find out you were adopted from another country. In response, you decide to 1) kill your adopted siblings, 2) travel to your place of origin, meet your biological father, don't reveal your relationship, and then hire him to kill your adopted father, 3) kill your biological father in the process of the attempted assassination, thereby becoming a hero! Oh, and then 4) you nuke the whole country you came from. WTF. I mean I get his identity crisis went deep and he wants to prove himself a TRUE ASGARDIAN and DESTROY HIS ORIGINS FOREVER but finding out he was a frost giant did not really justify what Loki did. And I don't just mean like, morally. I MEAN LOGICALLY.
And he was pretty fucked up before that even went down. I MEAN HE SET UP A BUNCH OF FROST GIANTS TO GET KILLED, THEN SENT THOR AND ALL HIS FRIENDS TO SUPER DANGEROUS FROST GIANT-LAND (
thor loves me and my names for these places), then possibly gets Thor kicked out of Asgard? IDK if he meant it to go that far. In fact I sort of get the idea that he didn't mean for that battle to go as south as it did, HIS "THOR, LET'S GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE" start to sound genuine when there is real danger going around, but like I said before, NOT WANTING EVERYBODY YOU KNOW TO DIE does not actually earn you a mark in the Good Person column. SO LIKE, he was already halfway to his nervous breakdown already, clearly. BUT WHY?
ODIN WAS A SHIT PARENT BUT WHAT SUGGESTS HE WAS THAT TERRIBLE? Tons of people I know have favorite kids, and are super obvious about it. FUCKS THE KIDS UP YES, but they stop short of sending kill bots to off their more liked siblings.
I think it's the kill bot that is the sticking point for me.
Also the fact that everybody seemed to naturally suspect Loki, at a point in the film where I, the viewer with meta knowledge, passing knowledge of mythology, and experience in seeing basically every big budget action/fantasy film ever made in America, still thought his justifications were holding up pretty well actually. SO MAYBE HE'S BEEN SHIFTY IN THE PAST? But doubting Loki never for a second crosses Thor's mind, even when he's all irrational and upset about Odin's death, so there has to be some sort of history that makes Thor think he can trust Loki absolutely. History that simultaneously makes everybody else totally distrust him? EXCEPT HIS PARENTS, who are actually sort of realistically parentish, they don't expect him to do anything awful but they don't like, think they can trust him absolutely or anything. This is presumably because they have met him.
BUT THOR KNOWS HIM TOO? Maybe he is just missing what everybody else thinks is obvious. There's just not a whole lot to indicate that Thor is that fucking stupid, though.
This is just bad writing, I tell myself. NO, my brain says. THERE IS A STORY IN HERE. THESE PIECES CLEARLY MAKE A STORY THAT MAKES SENSE.
It doesn't, though. I start to think I pick my fandoms not just because they are corny and crazily unevenly written, but because of this fact.
While we're on the topic of plotholes can you really hit a dude with your car and taze him unconscious, then bring him to the hospital and tell them, oh yeah, we found this guy, looks like's he's been hit by a car and then tazed unconscious, crazy, huh? Laters!
I have only seen this movie once and I cannot see it again probably until it is out on DVD. Nooooo.
no subject
no subject
no subject
no subject
So have ever run a dude down with your car and then took him to the hospital and said you just found him like that?
no subject
no subject
no subject
no subject
Didn't he.
no subject
Maybe.
no subject
no subject
no subject
no subject
no subject
BECAUSE TRYING TO KILL THOR DID NOT HELP HIS PLAN IN ANY WAY?
BECAUSE TRYING TO KILL THOR ACTUALLY RUINED HIS PLANS IN THE END?
BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO KILL THEIR OLDER BROTHERS?
I MEAN, IF YOU GET THE OPPORTUNITY TO KILL BRYCE AND GET AWAY WITH IT, EVEN IF YOU HAVE NO MOTIVE TO DO SO, ARE YOU GONNA JUMP ON THAT?
no subject
MAYBE I ALREADY HAVE
when was the last time you talked to bryce?
no subject
it has been a few days
no subject
no subject
no subject
no subject
no subject
no subject
no subject
no subject